Any ideas for make a legit indicator of something?
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Vizitat de: 85 users
IMO:
Right now there has been many exploits on the majority, if not all, system of classification in AtWar. Some knows examples:
SP system
Games won/loss system
Reputation system.
Clan Points system.
Elo system.
How to fix those systems? There has been many suggestions for a while. Some of them such as the SP multiplier greatly reduced the percent of SP farm, but the solution was pretty slow - many players already made up their way to high rank. While Clan Points had received more proposal and is likely to be fixed first than the rest of the system, it looks like the community just had give up with both the Rep and ELO system. Games won are probably the most useless of the farms, but the fact that you can obtain a good win/loss and leave ratio easily can still be cataloged as a farm, and I swear many players has been tricked using this for estimate someone's skills.
Problems on a community are pretty usual, but they are in the next formula:
%Self-Efficiently = Required time for fix a problem / Time since the exist of such problem.
If we know how to fix those systems, why aren't we doing it?
There are various factors, but two of them are the most important of all:
1) Inactivity of Admins: As Ivan had expressed on another post (Fruit's one), both admins are humans, like us. They eventually earned stuff and problems that have more priority than AtWar. Since they doesn't have enough time, the number of problems had suddenly rise up. Many players thinks and complains that the Admins had "left AtWar".
2) The problem with the Moderator Team/System: From all AtWar, the moderator team is the closest system to the admins, and also the second position in order of power. They regulate AtWar in many ways. But recently the number of players rejecting a moderator's action had rise. Once again, many players want a change.
Okay, what to do now or we should just sit and watch?
Yes, Sit and Watch. This works by far better than trying any solution. Stay out of any flaming post and you'll be fine.... yes, YOU. But not the community.
I've got the indirect. Are you telling me I should make a bunch of post so something changes?
No.
Then what?
IMO, most of those self-regulation task are already done by the moderator system. But there are some task that can't be done by them and requires admin's help. If admins just give more powers to mods for implement and fix certain systems/features (ELO, for examples) the time required for fix a problem would improve pretty fast. I am not saying we would stop having problems and AtWar would've the heavens, but, Once again, we would improve a lot. Bye Bye long problems without solution.
Sorry I disagree giving more power to mods. They already proven to be bad guys and giving more power would only cause more bias actions and AtWar would be in general worsen.
Here's the problem. The only group that can fix those problems have many adverse in the own community. This is why we should just sit and watch.
There must be another solution!
Discuss time!
imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...
Right now there has been many exploits on the majority, if not all, system of classification in AtWar. Some knows examples:
SP system
Games won/loss system
Reputation system.
Clan Points system.
Elo system.
How to fix those systems? There has been many suggestions for a while. Some of them such as the SP multiplier greatly reduced the percent of SP farm, but the solution was pretty slow - many players already made up their way to high rank. While Clan Points had received more proposal and is likely to be fixed first than the rest of the system, it looks like the community just had give up with both the Rep and ELO system. Games won are probably the most useless of the farms, but the fact that you can obtain a good win/loss and leave ratio easily can still be cataloged as a farm, and I swear many players has been tricked using this for estimate someone's skills.
Problems on a community are pretty usual, but they are in the next formula:
%Self-Efficiently = Required time for fix a problem / Time since the exist of such problem.
If we know how to fix those systems, why aren't we doing it?
There are various factors, but two of them are the most important of all:
1) Inactivity of Admins: As Ivan had expressed on another post (Fruit's one), both admins are humans, like us. They eventually earned stuff and problems that have more priority than AtWar. Since they doesn't have enough time, the number of problems had suddenly rise up. Many players thinks and complains that the Admins had "left AtWar".
2) The problem with the Moderator Team/System: From all AtWar, the moderator team is the closest system to the admins, and also the second position in order of power. They regulate AtWar in many ways. But recently the number of players rejecting a moderator's action had rise. Once again, many players want a change.
Okay, what to do now or we should just sit and watch?
Yes, Sit and Watch. This works by far better than trying any solution. Stay out of any flaming post and you'll be fine.... yes, YOU. But not the community.
I've got the indirect. Are you telling me I should make a bunch of post so something changes?
No.
Then what?
IMO, most of those self-regulation task are already done by the moderator system. But there are some task that can't be done by them and requires admin's help. If admins just give more powers to mods for implement and fix certain systems/features (ELO, for examples) the time required for fix a problem would improve pretty fast. I am not saying we would stop having problems and AtWar would've the heavens, but, Once again, we would improve a lot. Bye Bye long problems without solution.
Sorry I disagree giving more power to mods. They already proven to be bad guys and giving more power would only cause more bias actions and AtWar would be in general worsen.
Here's the problem. The only group that can fix those problems have many adverse in the own community. This is why we should just sit and watch.
There must be another solution!
Discuss time!
imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...
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Sorry but is this a joke? When all of us ''cry people'' made threads about these ''problems'' you commented with, :'' if they exploit it, then you go exploit it too'' and now you make a thread about this saying it should be fixed? I can see 2 options out of this action: 1. Moderatorship...  2. You showed us you are bias and ''backed up'' your ''friends'' Wish people weren't this obvious and actually knew how to hide some cravings..
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I don't know what the problem is. Reputation is a perfect indicator. Death1812 is number one and most reputable person in atWar! 
---- "In atWar you either die a hero or live long enough to ally fag and gang bang some poor bastards." ~Goblin "In this game, everyone is hated." ~Xenosapien
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Dayum that waiting for deathdick! Once you go black you never go back.
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Exactly that, just replace "To the corner" with "You're now muted" and "donkey hat" with "ban hammer".
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In My concept of this idea (assuming we're talking about what I've purposed in this thread): I am not asking to give them any kind of moderator power, but just form a "committee". Common AW problems get organized and ranges from "High priority to "Low priority". Of course, admins will always have the final choice between what have priority and what does not. The problem with open discussion on forums is that you can discuss for about 12 pages without research any conclusion. Then Admins would have to read through 12 pages before research a conclusion, which takes time. If this get implemented, then all the useful information could be written and saved. It would have the format that I've replied to Meester in this forum. If a participant disagrees with what was written about his decision, he could just ask for it - this basically reduces the chance of bias to zero with the exception of what have more priority over another thing, but once again, the last words belongs to Admins. You can compare this idea to Ivan and Amok's To-Do list  About the moderator team: Mods already have many regulation tools, but there are some actions that requires admins approval. They don't have much time (HTML) for check everything that needs to be approved, and a mechanism for reduce this time should've implemented. Even own mods could carry what I've purposed, but I'd quote again that many players would disagree to give more power to moderators ( I am unaware whenever those players are majority or minority from the active players that participates on AW community). By giving the decision that are usually done by admins to Mods (Just for give some examples, the CW system and the ELO system) the required time for fix those system would've lowered, and admins wouldn't have to worry about it. By organizing the decision that are done by Admins, they would have to check less post. If the Moderator team carries on this job, it would be cool, but inactivity and "bias" would be present (Let's say there is a purpose for change moderator team, but the moderator team doesn't consider this as relevant and they either discard or give it the lowest priority possible). However, if players that are directly chosen by the community certain time are the ones that manages this kind of list (NOTE: I say manages this list, not giving any mod or admin power), there would practically be no inactivity (For next elections, those inactive players wouldn't ever appear I guess...) and fast responses. The amount of bias would be reduced as well (Several players organizes the list). I imagine the only problem would've "what have more priority over another thing", but by vows and majority elections this would've solved easy. In resume, we should speed up the time we need for fix a problem. This can be archived in many ways, I've purposed two: Giving more powers to mods or/and making a list about the priorities updates.
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My purpose with this thread is to look for a way to reduce the amount of time that we need for fix a problem. How is that hard to understand? I don't get how waffel and khal can completely miss the point and go off topic..... Dutch power maybe?
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Exactly what was proposed and shot down.
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There isn't that much of a discussion to warrant that - and even in communities with enormous amounts of discussion (i.e. Dota2 and LoL), developers are still involved and check the community's forums or subreddits for what they want. It isn't even that hard to stay up to date with the majority of the discussions in this forum, and Ivan and Amok certainly pay attention to that. The next problem is that the current platform is being deprecated, which means Silverlight is not getting updates anymore and won't be working on a lot of devices any time soon. The solution is HTML 5, but it isn't that simple and the admins would rather implement the new features in the new version than have to implement the same feature twice. That's why there's a lack of updates and that's one of the reasons this committee idea wouldn't work (the second being that would be best for player to be involved in a feature discussion on the forums than to have that feature be discussed by a proxy).
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Ok cw system I understand the problem but now what's wrong with the elo system I feel like there are far more problems to deal with, plus I see no problem with allowing mods to have more power because they can basically mute you and thats it, then again I'm not a mod so I don't know what they have to deal with. But Clovis has my support and #Wafflenotformod2015 oh and rep system there is no problem?
---- R.I.P. Mortal Kombat 2/15/2015  ~Cryptic(CDN)
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That they pay attention sure, but the time they take for fix it is just too much. For quote own Ivan:
Source: http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=17728 HTML version of the game is not the only problem. Imagine Ivan logging in for see 50 mails, and from those 50 mails 25 are actually legit and the other 25 are troll or "hi" type of messages. From those 25, 15 are problems that could've resolved by a Moderator and the other 5 are problems that could've solved by any kind of user. at the end, only 5 messages that requires his reply. If we talk about spending time on AtWar, this is definitively can be more efficient. So I will say it once again: They do pay attention for sure, but the time they take for reply is just too much. There are plenty of examples, but I guess I do no need to provide evidence of admins replying late to a post. (And with late, I mean more than two weeks!!!). How to make this process more efficent? I've noticed own Ivan usually doesn't reply messages that doesn't requires his reply or that he already replied (I know this by experience). I've also noticed that somewhere and somehow columna quoted Ivan's words once, when changing AW rules for add the ban list issues. I am pretty sure mods did their own and made a thread in moderator forums that only required Ivan's words (I am unaware whenever Ivan did read or not the second strike issues on the original threads, but as far as I know he didn't replied to any of those post). On my dead proposal I've asked for introduce the player more on the rules and forums. If a player actually knows about those two, even the own job of a mod would've reduced greatly. I also wonder how many questions a player had asked to a moderator that could've resolved by any active user... probably more than with admins. So, organizing my ideas. The amount of time that both Ivan and Amok need to expend interacting with the game community would've greatly reduced if: As I've proposed originally: 1)if a group of players organizes the idea. 2) By giving more self-regulation powers to moderators (i.e power for change Clan War system values, etc). Other ideas would've: 3) By hiring an assistant (But we both knows for this won't happen, probably if AtWar grows a lot. But is not like Ivan and Amok earn enough of this game for do this). 4) By doing something that in spanish we call "Auto didactas" (People that can teach themselves). If a player get a type of tour and recognize where to find information, the job of both admins and mods would've reduced greatly. 5) By giving the supporter team the job and tools for help and teach beginners (Players get curious for the dot and ask us questions regardless of this being official or not). 6) If a committee doesn't organize the ideas, then at least allow one user( choice of the community or the mods) to do it. I'll give you two examples of two posts that (in my opinion) are important, but are pretty outdated: atWar Record Book and Hall of Fame and Community Ideas Wishlist . If Moderator doesn't administrate those pages, then they should give the job to one active user(choice by the community or own mods). 7) ? I am pretty sure there are more proposal around there. I don't have any specific one atm. You will probably think (and is right) that it is kinda contradictory... the admins will lose lot of time implementing a kind of system that is supposed to save them time... But you need to invest time, and soon you will recover the time you've investment... btw just a clarification, most of the changes I've purposed are easy to do and they can be done by the website, so it doesn't affect whenever HTML comes or not (website is already on HTML).
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Speed up Speed up... How can we speed up the time required for fix a problem and therefore, have a better %Self-Efficiently indicator?
How can we reduce the time we need for fix all those systems?
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BUMP. Process that are done by the admins, but could'be done by a mod: # Open clan invitation for founder of a clan and promote him to leader. #Edit clan war system mechanics values. Process that are done by the admins that could be done by the community: # Cancel clan war. # Cancel Duels. Process that are done by moderators that could'be done by the community: #Lock, stick threads. #Organize Community threads such as Pulse's community ideas whishlist and chess's AtWar hall of fame. #Also, Administration of Banlist appeal Thread. #Invite players to their forum proyect (I.e: ATN president should be able to invite users to ATN forums). #Election of the own Moderator Team. #Election of PotS. I am looking right now at Kongregate's moderator system: They have room moderators AND forums moderators. It might work here too...
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