Gift countries / troops between allies

My suggestion is simple: being able to gift your countries and/or troops to your allies.



Situation 1: Your ally is weak and you want to give him an income bonus.

Since he is all the way over in Europe and you are in Asia, you cannot help him by going there, simply because it takes too long. Because of that you decide to give some of your countries to your friend in europe. This way he will get a bit more income and he can use the reinforcements created in those countries.



Situation 2: You and your ally both attack the enemy, however you get the countries but you do not need them as much as your ally

Your ally needs them more, so you decide to gift them to him. Because of this boost he is able to get enough reinforcements and money to fight again



Situation 3: You are very big and have a lot of troops, you have an ally that does not have as much.

Your decide to give some to your ally, as he can use these extra troops. (Of course they still need their payment every turn)



There may be only one problem though and those are the strategy bonuses. Will they still get them if you transfer them or will they keep the bonuses they had with the previous player? Who knows.

Worst idea ever,

1. Where do gifted troops go?

2. If you gifted them, would they just appear in your city next turn? (i mean wouldn't you expect them to go at the same speed, not just rush to your allies city in one turn?)

I'm guessing you just want to be able to put any of your troops into any of his cities? Ok so your in America and he's in Europe fighting, and you send him 100+ troops, that land in a city on his border and instead of losing the war in Europe, it is enough to turn the tide and Win. This isn't fair, and unbalances the game.

In real life, nations don't just gift troops, then they apear in the capital just like that. They come and support over time.

This sounds like it has the potential to be very unfair, especially in team matches.

I would support "gifting" by way of occupying ally territories. Currently, if you want to give your ally a country, you have to empty it, and he takes it the turn after.

I wouldn't mind if they changed it so that you could transfer the country in one turn, so that it wouldn't be vulnerable with 0 troops for a whole turn.

Maybe the gifted player would have to pay for the cost difference between their troops and the sender's troops while receiving the bonuses/penalties of their strategy?

@ joel
i think the idea is everything stays where its at just switches hands.

@ Indo
i agree that it could be abused from the traditional way, but i think that what you call "abuse" would lead to better cordinated team play

with the 0 troops just build a defence line around it the same turn u move out then only an ally can take it

@ Specter

I'm thinking situation 3, he is thinking, you can choose any troops that are anywhere and gift them to any of your allies cities,
If this is what he means, he is obviously just trying to create a shortcut for his units.
also it can easily be abused
eg.

1 person holds Europe, 1 holds america,
America gifts 100 units to Turkey
Europe gifts america ukraine.
next turn Europe gifts the 100 units to ukraine

Yeah, you've just teleported 100 units to the front line against asia, and during the time of not having 100 units, you've gained a huge income boost.

If you can just drop them on an allies city, and there is no way to teleport them like that, i'm fine


Situation 2 could be abused too.

You late join, drop all your troops on a near city and gift the city to a friend who asked you to come help.
or
You know you are losing, so you gift all your cities to an ally, seeing as you can hold your allies capital indefinitely, you don't lose, but the person you gifted it can now harass alot easier than you could.\
or
You build tons of troops, go into negative income, put all the troops in one city, and gift it too an ally, still have the same income after.

I'd be ok with this if only the militia in a city stay, but any other units are disbanded so it is only purely for income, and no other reasons.

I think these should only apply to team or coalition games, but not in a normal game.

I would agree to that. Teleporting is not on the agenda today, though it might be cool. So gifting troops seems to be a problem, but land could be provided it only allows militia to remain. Disbanding isn't an option at this point so the units would simply have to be move outside the city automatically. Also if this was implemented i would assume the same or greater restrictions than the present 3 turns before one can transfer money. Yihka any thoughts?

I think we actually have this option done, but we never opened it because it has a high potential to be abused. For example, you join from a second account, build like 50 tanks, invade a neighbor country and then promptly pass everything to your main player. Doesn't even have to be a second account, can be a 'helpful' friend or something.

*ssshhhh* don't tell anyone about it!

Well, I never suggested that "gifted" units get teleported, I merely want a stack to change ownership and it will stay on the same place. where it was the turn before.



Hmm, reading all these posts I have to agree I have forgotten some of the situations people can use to "abuse" with.

So just to be cool I will throw in some suggestions that might make it still possible but less abusable:


Gifting Timer:
After you become someones ally, it will take 5 turns before you may be gifting a country. Also, the maximum amount of units /countries you may give are determined by the average between the two players.

Fixes the problem:
-Gifting all your countries to your friend or yourself on another name (Avg. country & 5 turn duration)
-Amount of units that may be gifted


Income limit:
If you receive units as a gift, your income may not go under -500 per turn.

Fixes the problem:
-Giving an absurd amount of units to one player and to get rid of your own income problems.



Also if someone wants to gift you, you have to accept / decline them. If it's a country/city, you will see the country name. (Click on it to auto move towards it) If they are units, the place where they are (Near Paris, France) is also shown.

And about gifting a country, only the standard militia units will stay, the other units will move outside the country. Of course there is a check-box that says "Also gift units".

And if you gift units and they are in your own city, they will move out when they change ownership. (Unless the thing is already fixed that you may move your own units in another city)?

Scris de Yihka, 11.04.2011 at 14:03

After you become someones ally, it will take 5 turns before you may be gifting a country.

Waiting 5 turns isn't really a problem for late joiners.

Scris de Yihka, 11.04.2011 at 14:03

Also, the maximum amount of units /countries you may give are determined by the average between the two players.

So, depending on how powerful you are, your options are limited, this destroys the point.

Scris de Yihka, 11.04.2011 at 14:03

If you receive units as a gift, your income may not go under -500 per turn.

Why would anyone give away units knowing that they still have to support them? Wouldn't it just be easier to just send them where they are needed?

Scris de Yihka, 11.04.2011 at 14:03

Also if someone wants to gift you, you have to accept / decline them.

Ok, so sent gift, they have to accept next turn, and get it the turn after. Thats three turns, and they aren't able to move anywhere in that time, then the person who sends them still has to support them...right.

Scris de Yihka, 11.04.2011 at 14:03

And about gifting a country, only the standard militia units will stay, the other units will move outside the country. Of course there is a check-box that says "Also gift units".

No, all units move out except the amount of units it could be able to reinforce and only milita (or infantry if there are no militia, or nothing if there is neither.) eg. London 8 stays, Paris, 6 stays, so on
I think gifting countries and gifting units need to stay separate.



Actually, i've thought of a new idea for gifting cities, to completely stop abuse.

When you gift a city, militia in amount of how much can be reinforced stay in the City, like i said above.
When you gift a city, you get the full income benefits, but are unable to reinforce the city with units, this will stop people who are in America/Asia "suddenly" moving into Europe over the course of a turn.
If you want to be able to produce units, you have to drop your own units on them.
Of course, the militia in there are frozen in the city until you do, and a sign in a corner of the city tells anyone (including enemies who have the view) that this city cannot produce units.

Also, i think gifting units is to prone to abuse, and there are no ways to solve it, so it is a bad idea.

Thoughts?

Had an idea very similar to the "gift countrys" idea a while back, guess I should post it eh? Some sort of tab like a "Diplomacy" tab the shows a outline of every players emipire/conquered land thing, and displays how much each province (country) costs if they are willing to sell it to a player that they are allied or at peace with. Say Honkyjoe wants Leaftrimmers province, Czech republic, he asks him in say pr message, they negotiate a deal, then Leaftrimmer puts it up for sale on the diplomacy tab, Honkyjoe selects it, and pays the amount wanted for it. It would boot Leaftrimmers troops out next turn, and would come with 1-3 militia for protection until real troops arrive.

Scris de Garde, 11.04.2011 at 22:36

Had an idea very similar to the "gift countrys" idea a while back, guess I should post it eh? Some sort of tab like a "Diplomacy" tab the shows a outline of every players emipire/conquered land thing, and displays how much each province (country) costs if they are willing to sell it to a player that they are allied or at peace with. Say Honkyjoe wants Leaftrimmers province, Czech republic, he asks him in say pr message, they negotiate a deal, then Leaftrimmer puts it up for sale on the diplomacy tab, Honkyjoe selects it, and pays the amount wanted for it. It would boot Leaftrimmers troops out next turn, and would come with 1-3 militia for protection until real troops arrive.

Of course this would have to be done between allies, or if it is between enemies, no conflict can go on in that country for say 5 turns.

Scris de nonames, 11.04.2011 at 19:24

Waiting 5 turns isn't really a problem for late joiners.

But it may become a problem if you are trying to abuse the system by gifting it to a close friend or yourself on another account within 5 turns. Sure we can totally remove this limit and see players connecting to the game in turn 1, joining the game in turn 2, accepting an alliance in turn 3 and gaining all the countries in turn 4. However if this protection was there the player would have had to wait till turn 10 untillhe had the countries since the timer goes on after 5 turns being in an alliance. Turn 9 would be gifting the units and turn 10 accepting them.

Citat:

So, depending on how powerful you are, your options are limited, this destroys the point.

It does not destroy the point at all. If I have 1 country and you have 10, why would you want to give me more than 5 countries? The only point in doing that is if you know you are dying and/or to give the player you are gifting it to a big bonus against other players.

We can also take away this limit and see how someone gifts all their countries away to someone else.

Citat:

Why would anyone give away units knowing that they still have to support them? Wouldn't it just be easier to just send them where they are needed?

You are gifting them so your friend can use them for themselves in their cities / countries. They can use them to capture their own countries instead of having you to take them for them. I agree that it may be better if you do not give them instead but that really depends on the situation.

Some players are big (As in much countries / cities) but do not have the units they need. If you are near this person and you have a lot of men, you may decide to donate 50 men to him so he can use that for himself to protect/attack with.

Citat:

Ok, so sent gift, they have to accept next turn, and get it the turn after. Thats three turns, and they aren't able to move anywhere in that time, then the person who sends them still has to support them...right.

No... It works the same as accepting an alliance.
Turn 1: you select what you want to gift and press the gift icon.
Turn 2: The gifted person sees it in a popup and presses accept. The gifted person will gain access to them right away.

Citat:

No, all units move out except the amount of units it could be able to reinforce and only milita (or infantry if there are no militia, or nothing if there is neither.) eg. London 8 stays, Paris, 6 stays, so on
I think gifting countries and gifting units need to stay separate.

That might work... Perhaps the default amount of units at start (Only militia if the city was protected by militia) ? And none if there weren't militia in it.

However this is confusing. What if you are guerilla warfare? Your units will be converted towards the other player while you do not want that. Well, you should have moved them out I suppose?

Citat:

Actually, i've thought of a new idea for gifting cities, to completely stop abuse.

When you gift a city, militia in amount of how much can be reinforced stay in the City, like i said above.
When you gift a city, you get the full income benefits, but are unable to reinforce the city with units, this will stop people who are in America/Asia "suddenly" moving into Europe over the course of a turn.
If you want to be able to produce units, you have to drop your own units on them.
Of course, the militia in there are frozen in the city until you do, and a sign in a corner of the city tells anyone (including enemies who have the view) that this city cannot produce units.

Also, i think gifting units is to prone to abuse, and there are no ways to solve it, so it is a bad idea.

Thoughts?

That's a pretty good idea but it may take away some points of gifting a country other than the income bonus. Plus I think gfiting it would be more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

Perhaps you can re-buy the country after it has been gifted to you so you can use the reinforcements? Still, it wouldn't compensate for the no-reinforcements policy until you put your own men in it...

Weak players can only get more money and strong players (Such as america trying to invade europe) do not get much of a bonus since they already get a lot of income.

Plus gifted countries cannot protect themselves anymore because they cannot make reinforcements

Citat:

Had an idea very similar to the "gift countrys" idea a while back, guess I should post it eh? Some sort of tab like a "Diplomacy" tab the shows a outline of every players emipire/conquered land thing, and displays how much each province (country) costs if they are willing to sell it to a player that they are allied or at peace with. Say Honkyjoe wants Leaftrimmers province, Czech republic, he asks him in say pr message, they negotiate a deal, then Leaftrimmer puts it up for sale on the diplomacy tab, Honkyjoe selects it, and pays the amount wanted for it. It would boot Leaftrimmers troops out next turn, and would come with 1-3 militia for protection until real troops arrive.

Being able to trade countries seems to be a cool idea. I would love to trade some of my countries just for a boost in money so I can buy those extra units to win the battle I am having with my enemy

Hmm just wondering would it be an open auction or closed auction? I would like it to be up the seller. open auction could lead to higher bidding wars and possibly people joining could buy countries, while closed auction gives controll over whom you sell to.

Scris de specter, 12.04.2011 at 17:40

Hmm just wondering would it be an open auction or closed auction? I would like it to be up the seller. open auction could lead to higher bidding wars and possibly people joining could buy countries, while closed auction gives controll over whom you sell to.

I would love to be able to sell and buy territories. Adds a whole other dimension to diplomacy, where you might sell a territory to a heavy wallet player you formerly would not have, or buying strategic places.


Perhaps have the player able to put up a territory(s)up for sale throw an icon on the click-window for the nation, write in the asking price for it or them (bundling territories might be difficult) and it shows up in a 'Auction' window, which can be found by any player via the players tab, perhaps a small icon in each players window near PEACE/ALLIANCE, or maybe just a whole communal game tab.

Scris de specter, 12.04.2011 at 17:40

Hmm just wondering would it be an open auction or closed auction? I would like it to be up the seller. open auction could lead to higher bidding wars and possibly people joining could buy countries, while closed auction gives controll over whom you sell to.

Bidding? why not just a done deal. Be the first to click it- and its yours. Bidding sounds like it would make it more balanced though, we could get Amok to do voice overs as the bid caller XD

I was thinking it would pop up in the same window(or like) that game proposals are done in. So basically for the auction the country would start at something like half the countries net worth or more at players discresion. People then could bid on it as much as they want, and the seller could close it whenever he wants but only can accept the highest bid or refuse to sell.

Scris de specter, 12.04.2011 at 19:53

I was thinking it would pop up in the same window(or like) that game proposals are done in. So basically for the auction the country would start at something like half the countries net worth or more at players discresion. People then could bid on it as much as they want, and the seller could close it whenever he wants but only can accept the highest bid or refuse to sell.

Sounds cool, but with the window I was thinking it would be its own tab at the top, and shows a list of countrys which can be bought/bidded on, and this wouldn't be just some text list, next to each one up for sale is a pic of the country, and in a little info box it shows which citys are there/how many reinforments can be obtained every 4 turns.

Hmmm, I think both idea's need to be added (Being able to gift countries (and units) and able to put a country for bidding)

I just like being able to bid on things... the minimal bid would be 25% of the price of the country and you can only bid it if you own all the cities in it.

Why not just charge players money for gifting units? Make the cost to teleport the unit the same as the cost to purchase it.

Another idea that could be another solution, a player can gift units at 50% of the purchase price, and the player who receives the units has to move them from where they were gifted to where they need it, manually. Of course, long distances are annoying, so perhaps we can implement a multiple move feature. Say a player wants to get from point A to point B, a distance of 15. Their unit only has 5 range, so it will take 3 turns to move them. However, using the multiple move feature the player can set it so that the game will automatically move the units to the destination, at the same speed. This feature saves us time, in particular when we're crossing oceans.

As for bidding, I think Yihka's idea is good, however the minimal bid should be calculated using income and reinforcements.

No teleporting or giving your ally units where ever they are it should be that u can only give your ally units if they are on his land. so in another meaning if u want to give your ally troops u have personally ship them to his land manually.

It would make more since if you must move the units you wish to give to ally to their territory and give them ownership of it costing 50% of the original unit cost, but making the original owner of the units to pay for them. like say for example in real life america gives The UK 10,000 ground units but the UK is only controlling them for a certain time. America still pays for them. so in game they can only own them for a given amount of turns with a maximum of say 10 turns.

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