Thank you Amok & Ivan (And Sun Tzu)

Scris de 4nic Smith, 15.04.2025 at 11:22

https://tenor.com/view/throwing-stone-gif-18663989

Scris de Kaska, 15.04.2025 at 00:41

Blocked tengri, best décision ever

(Edit : tengri stop pming thru alts you scumbag)

why would i waste my time by pming u on alts?
its unleashed u ape and now hes going to spam me for the next 1 week cuz i named him

Although this may seem obvious, I felt the need to say it: even with small and very slight differences, many of the people from different communities who voted in favor of this thread (and other similar posts), and who also commented in this thread, agree that a general unban is necessary and that things have gone too far.

I could list each of them, but doing so would only be unnecessarily sad.

While it's true that unbanning them won't generate a noticeable increase in the number of players, it would make the game more interesting and dynamic.

I understand that if you haven't tried everything the game has to offer, you can't really know if it's interesting or not. Therefore, you shouldn't assume that the decline in activity is only due to toxicity.

The real problem is the lack of content, updates, and improvements in gameplay quality. This makes the game feel boring and undynamic, especially for new players. Even more so considering it's a browser game with an aesthetic pulled from 2014-ish, while many of the newcomers are coming from playing games like Hoi4, Fortnite, Marvel Rivals, League of Legends, Genshin Impact, among others.

There is also no real incentive for current players to stay. Many abandoned the game, deleted their accounts, or simply stopped logging in. A large portion left because their friends or acquaintances were banned, causing a kind of chain reaction of deleted accounts.

To make matters worse, there are no old players left who can teach or who have the desire or motivation to actively do so.

Both situations feed off each other, and added to the lack of investment in new content, they form a perfect triad that only contributes to the game feeling more and more dead.

If I had to set priorities, I would put toxicity last among the factors that make the game unplayable. But I also understand that, in a context where so many important things are missing (including the map editor), some people end up resorting to punish others as a way to "do something," even though in reality, it doesn't represent a significant solution.

Scris de Grand Inquisitor, 14.04.2025 at 09:27

Imagine if you had 30 players instead of 11, maybe you could fill the lobby with trusted players as we always did. I must be briliant to come up with this. Lol

Or possibly an AI (bots).

Which Dave said himself a couple of weeks ago that he might work on - despite him ignoring this thought of mine twice already.

I guess I'm also up there with Einstein and you.

Why are you all so gay

Scris de nutt, 15.04.2025 at 20:09

Why are you all so gay

i dont know, you tell us since you are

Scris de Patricky, 15.04.2025 at 19:20

Scris de Grand Inquisitor, 14.04.2025 at 09:27

Imagine if you had 30 players instead of 11, maybe you could fill the lobby with trusted players as we always did. I must be briliant to come up with this. Lol

Or possibly an AI (bots).

Which Dave said himself a couple of weeks ago that he might work on - despite him ignoring this thought of mine twice already.

I guess I'm also up there with Einstein and you.

This isn't your thought lol; the entire world is foaming at the mouth for practical uses of ai. Programming an ai bot would be very time consuming and require an extensive knowledge of machine learning. Integrating it into this spaghetti code would be a nightmare.

Idk why I even added that, the important part is:

THERE IS NO SATISFACTION IN BEATING A BOT….AT ALL

the only practical use I could see is a training simulator or a single player mode for those who wish.

All this game has, is its community. A cold, sterilized, bot does nothing for it. The majority of players are not going to log on, to play against a fucking ai bot.

Scris de Nanoknight, 14.04.2025 at 04:28

Meh you guys are all delusional, I can speak for myself, I only stayed because of persistence and atWar's uniqueness and I like maps, especially the custom scenarios, if I wasn't persistent I would've left after rank 6, since the community definitely is a problem and it is also a reason I hesitate to recommend atWar from other turn based browser games (which I won't even mention so they don't get brigaded/hacked/DDoSed, lol, that's how bad atWar "community" is)
I maybe got a few people make a new account or guest account here but I'm sure most of them didn't stick around.
It is also a large reason I take big breaks, there's just "greener pastures" than here, even if not having exactly the same mechanics.

1 slight criticism I might have is in the future direction, either make this entirely "family-friendly", or not, and also a complete theme makeover and relatively cheap promotional campaigns can be done over the internet.
Adding AI (at least rules based AI) and quality of life features such as rally points alongside the existing auto recruit, would come a long way.

Maybe also a map editor overhaul, to make it less hard to make maps, with a GUI integrated scripting system? Nowadays it isn't too hard to accomplish such.

Appreciate the comment and I agree with you

About future direction, unfortunately even the smallest changes are incredibly painful to make here on AW due to the poor state of the code. I've been trying to untangle it for years and feel like I've still barely scratched the surface. I think a total re-build from scratch would make things so much easier. Keep the idea and the mechanics but totally rewrite the code. If I did it though I would give it a new name and launch it as if it were its own totally new thing... I wouldn't tell anyone in the AW community about it because I wouldn't want the awful community to spread to the new platform!

Scris de Grand Inquisitor, 14.04.2025 at 05:06

Every month there is a New bug that makes playing worse, but when clovis needs a turn reset, thats then prio number 1.

Yeah because Clovis isn't a dick, I'm more motivated to help him out!

Scris de Nanoknight, 14.04.2025 at 05:47

Citat:

So if you're going to refer to any criminal laws, either do it right or don't forget to mention that you're referring to the criminal law systems of dictatorial regimes, because according to your own words, you clearly don't believe in any democratic values in this game.

> Forms mobs that chases away new players
> Complains about democratic values not being upheld
Me: ?

100%

Scris de Lev Davidovic, 14.04.2025 at 11:24

I really pray that the game as a whole is not hopeless aswell, but owner ignoring feedbacks suggest otherwise. I still don't understand what is the danger in unbanning people that are not hackers, without making them moderators or vice-president-whatever. I don't understand it because in 7 pages of thread it has not been said once. It has been said that low activity is better then bad activity (where I agree), but it hasnt been written what is exaclty this "bad". Is it farming or unsposrtmanship? We had it, we will always have it. Is it toxicity? Well, read above Dave, you will never get rid of that, unless you bann everyone that speaks, including and espetially your subordinates.

I'm not ignoring anybody as you can see from my numerous replies to this thread (well, except Waffel, because he's irrational). I *hear* you all, the thing is, I just don't *agree* with this "unban them all" argument. I've spelled out my reasons over and over. Just because you don't like my answer, don't pretend that I'm not listening. It doesn't matter how loud or how often you guys repeat the same old arguments. Those arguments have been rejected. It's time to accept this is what we're doing and lets move on.

To answer your question -- what is the danger in unbanning people? They problem is they're toxic.

Toxic people create an environment that pushes good players, and especially new players, away. This makes our already existing retention problem worse, not better.

That's the whole reason we're doing this. I've been saying this over and over.

Citat:

Scris de Dave, 15.04.2025 at 23:49

Appreciate the comment and I agree with you

About future direction, unfortunately even the smallest changes are incredibly painful to make here on AW due to the poor state of the code. I've been trying to untangle it for years and feel like I've still barely scratched the surface. I think a total re-build from scratch would make things so much easier. Keep the idea and the mechanics but totally rewrite the code. If I did it though I would give it a new name and launch it as if it were its own totally new thing... I wouldn't tell anyone in the AW community about it because I wouldn't want the awful community to spread to the new platform!

This seems like a brilliant idea. Make a new game from scratch and let toxic awful community have their old, shitty poor code.

P.S. hopefully you would tell Clovis about your new game

Scris de Waffelo, 14.04.2025 at 13:40

You, me, the whole goddamn game knows, that this is the period where Dave decided to change the datalogs of online players, and included literally everything into one pile: Online players.

I have not changed how online players are counted. That graph Clovis screenshotted is from a tool created by Amok that I have never made any changes to.

Please stop making up lies.

Scris de YourSphinx, 14.04.2025 at 22:44

This data is absolute garbage clovis and you look like a clown posting it. Relevant data would be something like total games played in main lobby, not a compilation of, the clicks of alts, forum visits, bots and passthrough user traffic.

That graph only counts players in games (or in lobbies). It does not include forums or bots or anything else. (I'm not sure this is central to the argument, but I just like to be accurate about data, it's my thing...)

Scris de YourSphinx, 14.04.2025 at 22:44

Alas you come back, had a resentful, slave, freak moment by demoting lao, disappeared for awhile and returned to speed run your reputation destruction even further. It's frankly gross and inhuman. The mystique of the tournament winner, high elo, epic clan leader is gone and a hollow shell of a cultural marxist remains. Lao was always right, you're always on the wrong side of everything.

I wasn't around for the Clovis v Lao thing, that happened before my time. But what I do know is that Lao is a total asshole, while Clovis is a genuinely good human being. Lao was demoted for reasons, I don't even know the whole story, but I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that he's such an asshole. I'm definitely gonna take Clovis' side on this one.

Scris de Eagle, 15.04.2025 at 02:33

Thank you Waffel for this post, its been a fun read honestly. Gave me a reason to log in daily just to see how this will unravel.
Back in 2021, as far as I remember, most of the permabans were discussed in the discord between Dave and us mods before any action was taken, and I myself supported most of them (such as Bugs and Lion), and I don't think those people should return. The only person I strongly objected, and still do (Dave remembers, we spent a few hours discussing it) was banning Lao, who for me is in the top 3/5 most respectful and skill-wise players this game has seen. I really don't know/remember how they managed to piss off each other so much, but it was an isolated incident.
But I agree with Waffel, 3/4 years has passed since the whole "dropping the hammer" scenario has happened, and I an 99% sure that not all the players who were deleted/permabanned back then do not deserve to come back.
So instead of dragging this topic further, maybe we should make a list of all the players who were deleted/permabanned and want to come back, and we review their cases in the staff discord channel.
@Dave I am sure we can manage that. As I can see, you yourself don't remember all the bans (like Waffel), and I am sure there are a couple of more.
In case of Waffel, I honestly don't see how he could drive new players away from this game. He is usually just an annoyance, but only to the people he knows. I don't see a scenario where he comes up to a beginner and starts spamming him, nor is he the one to post vulgar things in room/global channels.

I'm totally fine with us reviewing case-by-case. I even said that earlier in this thread...

I think it would be good for somebody to make a list of exactly which players they are talking about. Because I know we didn't ban that many people overall... and I'm pretty sure we're getting blamed for people who deleted their own accounts, or went inactive on their own, or whatever. Off the top of my head there's only maybe 5(?) people who can never come back. It would be interesting to go down the list and see who everyone is actually talking about.

The thing with Waffel, I'm leaning towards banning him again because he's definitely making up a lot of lies and bullshit. He's probably spreading all that false crap to others and causing even more drama, which makes the community problem even worse. But we can discuss that more in private.

Scris de Dave, 16.04.2025 at 00:22

Scris de Lev Davidovic, 14.04.2025 at 11:24

I really pray that the game as a whole is not hopeless aswell, but owner ignoring feedbacks suggest otherwise. I still don't understand what is the danger in unbanning people that are not hackers, without making them moderators or vice-president-whatever. I don't understand it because in 7 pages of thread it has not been said once. It has been said that low activity is better then bad activity (where I agree), but it hasnt been written what is exaclty this "bad". Is it farming or unsposrtmanship? We had it, we will always have it. Is it toxicity? Well, read above Dave, you will never get rid of that, unless you bann everyone that speaks, including and espetially your subordinates.

I'm not ignoring anybody as you can see from my numerous replies to this thread (well, except Waffel, because he's irrational). I *hear* you all, the thing is, I just don't *agree* with this "unban them all" argument. I've spelled out my reasons over and over. Just because you don't like my answer, don't pretend that I'm not listening. It doesn't matter how loud or how often you guys repeat the same old arguments. Those arguments have been rejected. It's time to accept this is what we're doing and lets move on.

To answer your question -- what is the danger in unbanning people? They problem is they're toxic.

Toxic people create an environment that pushes good players, and especially new players, away. This makes our already existing retention problem worse, not better.

That's the whole reason we're doing this. I've been saying this over and over.

Toxic people are fine for us old players, we got used to it, but as i can remember my first days in this community, i got help from "hdrakon" and Mytics clan, hdrakon was veryy friendly and helpful to me and i enjoyed every day in that clan with these people. I can't say what would happend if they were toxic to me, maybe i would just play world games and be a noob. So, healthy community is important to newbies only, later, they got used to toxicity xD

Scris de Dave, 15.04.2025 at 23:49

Scris de Nanoknight, 14.04.2025 at 04:28

-

About future direction, unfortunately even the smallest changes are incredibly painful to make here on AW due to the poor state of the code. I've been trying to untangle it for years and feel like I've still barely scratched the surface.

I have an idea that will be a good change and it is not hard to implement with the current code: Make World Map 2.0 free for non-prems to host. I'm sure that will give a sort of refreshing vibe for them and they will play a bit more (should be announced since otherwise they prob won't find out as they don't use the forums as much as prems) It prob takes like 2 seconds too so i think it will be a good change.

Scris de Dave, 16.04.2025 at 01:06

Scris de YourSphinx, 14.04.2025 at 22:44

This data is absolute garbage clovis and you look like a clown posting it. Relevant data would be something like total games played in main lobby, not a compilation of, the clicks of alts, forum visits, bots and passthrough user traffic.

That graph only counts players in games (or in lobbies). It does not include forums or bots or anything else. (I'm not sure this is central to the argument, but I just like to be accurate about data, it's my thing...)

Scris de YourSphinx, 14.04.2025 at 22:44

Alas you come back, had a resentful, slave, freak moment by demoting lao, disappeared for awhile and returned to speed run your reputation destruction even further. It's frankly gross and inhuman. The mystique of the tournament winner, high elo, epic clan leader is gone and a hollow shell of a cultural marxist remains. Lao was always right, you're always on the wrong side of everything.

I wasn't around for the Clovis v Lao thing, that happened before my time. But what I do know is that Lao is a total asshole, while Clovis is a genuinely good human being. Lao was demoted for reasons, I don't even know the whole story, but I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that he's such an asshole. I'm definitely gonna take Clovis' side on this one.

LOL
Clovis the biggest dick in here by far , sadly had to play scen with him all this years . He only not a dick for you !
I will show you some screenshots later today when I have time , will be soo funny .

Scris de Dave, 16.04.2025 at 01:14

Scris de Eagle, 15.04.2025 at 02:33

Thank you Waffel for this post, its been a fun read honestly. Gave me a reason to log in daily just to see how this will unravel.
Back in 2021, as far as I remember, most of the permabans were discussed in the discord between Dave and us mods before any action was taken, and I myself supported most of them (such as Bugs and Lion), and I don't think those people should return. The only person I strongly objected, and still do (Dave remembers, we spent a few hours discussing it) was banning Lao, who for me is in the top 3/5 most respectful and skill-wise players this game has seen. I really don't know/remember how they managed to piss off each other so much, but it was an isolated incident.
But I agree with Waffel, 3/4 years has passed since the whole "dropping the hammer" scenario has happened, and I an 99% sure that not all the players who were deleted/permabanned back then do not deserve to come back.
So instead of dragging this topic further, maybe we should make a list of all the players who were deleted/permabanned and want to come back, and we review their cases in the staff discord channel.
@Dave I am sure we can manage that. As I can see, you yourself don't remember all the bans (like Waffel), and I am sure there are a couple of more.
In case of Waffel, I honestly don't see how he could drive new players away from this game. He is usually just an annoyance, but only to the people he knows. I don't see a scenario where he comes up to a beginner and starts spamming him, nor is he the one to post vulgar things in room/global channels.

I'm totally fine with us reviewing case-by-case. I even said that earlier in this thread...

I think it would be good for somebody to make a list of exactly which players they are talking about. Because I know we didn't ban that many people overall... and I'm pretty sure we're getting blamed for people who deleted their own accounts, or went inactive on their own, or whatever. Off the top of my head there's only maybe 5(?) people who can never come back. It would be interesting to go down the list and see who everyone is actually talking about.

The thing with Waffel, I'm leaning towards banning him again because he's definitely making up a lot of lies and bullshit. He's probably spreading all that false crap to others and causing even more drama, which makes the community problem even worse. But we can discuss that more in private.

Yes, deleting BoyWind was a smart thing to do, very smart. Just cuz he said you are gay . Like come on, I hope you at least regret nuking him.

Hello everyone I am happy to see many of you around again, hope you doing well. I never expected that I would login in AW from a different account than Jugers2 after 3 years but here we are lol ( could have been in jail and out but still banned in AW :lol)

Nothing has changed from neither of the sides it seems, this could very well be crisis thread thread of 2021, it would fit perfectly. 3+ years after in a WAR game that if you aren't at least 12 you will never find enjoyable( no young person has patience to stare at a screen for 4 minutes moving dots, thanks TikTok) and we yet talking for the toxicity. To a game that had it's natural boom due to the real life events multiple times in those years (Iran crisis, Syria, Ukraine) yet no progress made. To a game of 2010 that still has its tutorial at coming soon. To a game that it's gameplay and dynamic is unique but yet can be repetitive, only thing that makes it different is the actual PLAYER you face. After all the reinforcements are fixed no matter what.

Yet we still talking about toxicity in this game and we claim that people who played for 13+ years, people who after being hunted down for 3 last year's still care to check on it more often than the people who hunted them, people who invited hundreds in their clans, trained them and made this boring nerd game being their preferred game around. We still talking how they harm the game.

I refuse to believe Dave you are blind and stubborn to see it, it's not possible. If you know what's going on and just having your daily laughs in here then congratulations, but I refuse to believe you keeping that line because you think it's the most beneficial AT THIS MOMENT. No Dave, as you yourself mentioned you plan nothing for at least a year, that means your line is not the most beneficial for YOUR game. Because remember it's YOUR game we care about, invest hours in, take care for. It's YOUR game that we try to improve and to see it stand back to it's old feet ready to support it at any moment.

Your game Dave, I think you already know it, is a game that even if you have 1 million people to play with, it will get boring at one point, you know why? Because the reason people played your game was to reach a point that they could beat the best scenario players, the best world map players, the best 3v3 players. That's what made young people stay. I could give you many examples of people but I think everyone who will read this will relate. I stayed as a 12 year old because I wanted to beat tophats after losing to him 20 times. Our beloved troll tengri stayed here because he kept losing to me in 1v1 for 20 times every day( true story confirm it oç). People make your game be unique, be enjoyable, have a meaning. You had those people who cared, maybe still do, that were a bonus to the awful retention AW has, not a handicap.

It's your game, you choose. But as a AW player, AW enjoyer and generally as you like to call people, a good rational guy, I suggest you since you don't plan to do anything for the next year, to give the wheel to us, the community that still cares for that year of absence and see if anything changes, maybe nothing will because it's too late, but I highly doubt that the decline will continue at this rate. It's on you to decide. But remember it might be your last chance you could have that option, i think you will not regret it.

Hope everyone is doing is doing well, greetings from JUGERS2, sadly didn't get the chance to say farewell to many of you 3 years ago. Hope it's not but if it is I will do this time if this posts passes and I don't get banned. Much love.

Multiple PS:
S2 is a heart in my name, once you see it can't unseen it <3

I am not advocating xbugs unban but anyone but him deserves a unban, in old games in many servers max ban time is 365. I think atwar can't afford to go over that.

Tengri quick cw

Galerious = snake

Sid once claimed I threatened him irl because I told I will drink from your skull



Dogwhistle

Even if dave unban lao waffel and few others, many people wont magically turn up again cuz they r long gone. Like dave said there are many ppl who deleted on their own or gone inactive.
Even if all those ppl come back it wont be like in old times. Its time to move on and let aw be a good memory. we can already talk to our friends through other platforms. We shouldnt be playing this game for 20 years and be stuck forever.
Dave is guilty of many things like making sid admin or giving power to croat pavle but not like we were far better during amok&ivan time. I remember they gave power to few of their favourite players who were power hungry and no different than sid + on top of that we could never communicate with any admin except for sun tzu sometimes.
Lastly, im not even slightly on dave side he caused the death of my best frend jugers

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 16.04.2025 at 04:37

Even if dave unban lao waffel and few others, many people wont magically turn up again cuz they r long gone. Like dave said there are many ppl who deleted on their own or gone inactive.
Even if all those ppl come back it wont be like in old times. Its time to move on and let aw be a good memory. we can already talk to our friends through other platforms. We shouldnt be playing this game for 20 years and be stuck forever.
Dave is guilty of many things like making sid admin or giving power to croat pavle but not like we were far better during amok&ivan time. I remember they gave power to few of their favourite players who were power hungry and no different than sid + on top of that we could never communicate with any admin except for sun tzu sometimes.
Lastly, im not even slightly on dave side he caused the death of my best frend jugers

Dogwhistle worked lmao

Scris de Palmitas, 16.04.2025 at 04:07

I have an idea that will be a good change and it is not hard to implement with the current code: Make World Map 2.0 free for non-prems to host. I'm sure that will give a sort of refreshing vibe for them and they will play a bit more (should be announced since otherwise they prob won't find out as they don't use the forums as much as prems) It prob takes like 2 seconds too so i think it will be a good change.

Um, it IS free for non-prems to host, always has been. What are you talking about?

Scris de JUGERS, 16.04.2025 at 04:35

Sid once claimed I threatened him irl because I told I will drink from your skull



Dogwhistle

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
dave thats a nice head you have on your shoulders

Scris de Dave, 16.04.2025 at 04:42

Scris de Palmitas, 16.04.2025 at 04:07

I have an idea that will be a good change and it is not hard to implement with the current code: Make World Map 2.0 free for non-prems to host. I'm sure that will give a sort of refreshing vibe for them and they will play a bit more (should be announced since otherwise they prob won't find out as they don't use the forums as much as prems) It prob takes like 2 seconds too so i think it will be a good change.

Um, it IS free for non-prems to host, always has been. What are you talking about?

Just checked and you are right, for some reason i thought that you couldn't lol.

Maybe put it first before the default, and new players will therefore create it more than the old one. (with new ones i mean people that start playing today)

like this if i wasn't clear:

We've been going in circles, and the only thing we've learned is that only suck ups are viewed favorably. Clovis becomes admin and web developer but does nothing and the game is still a shitty mess with code from 2012? He's great! Long time players who developed game strategies, host games around the clock, and have pages of discussion in the forums? Totally unnecessary to the game, better that they're gone.

This isn't a fun passion project to Dave, it's just a side business. There is not the same love, that's why all AW has is plans he's been too busy to expand on for 5 years.

But that's ok, because you have very clearly passionate people here willing to help if given the option. However, going in circles getting nastier and nastier is making things worse. You may not agree with everything 99% of the posts are saying, but there has to be SOME truth to SOMETHING, right?

Almost everyone here agrees with a tentative unban for a lot of victims of the banocaust. Obviously there are exclusions, but there are people you don't even know that even mods are saying should be unbanned.