Myths of WW1 and WW2

One short point: If two sides are fighting to exhaustion (WW1, UK & France vs Germany) and can't beat one another, then they cannot impose their will on one another, and at one point they give up and end it. Tens of millions died, but everybody else goes home and one side deosn't suffocate the other with war reparation and sanctions. And this is what would have happened. But then USA decided to step in, bring its fresh army into Europe, and then force Germany to accept a humiliating treaty (versaillles). Do you see? So Germany vs France & UK were equal in the fight, but Germany is forced to accept defeat and humiliation. Why? Then you know what came after that

Therefore: USA was the leading contributor to the rise of the German Reich, holocaust, and all that horror shit that happened afterwards.

Actually, the 2nd reich had low supplies. America simply sped up the defeat. And all 3 are responsible for the treaty.

I remember a little country called 'Russia' who exited the war in 1917, the same year America entered the war.
They were not 'exhausted' - the nation was undergoing a revolution.
I also remember the Ottoman Empire and the Austrian Empire as co-belligerents of the German Empire.

As per usual, American leadership was perfectly willing to let European kill European as long as Britain was not threatened, France would survive, and American trade was unrestricted - thus America's declared 'line in the sand' was German unrestricted submarine warfare and its trade with England. There was no overwhelming American sentiment for war until 1917, and every evidence that Wilson was content with the situation until Germany crossed the line.

Germany, faced with defeat, chose to engage in unrestricted submarine warfare in an attempt to 'starve' Britain.
Germany, realizing that America would enter the war (because American ships would be, and were, sunk) tried to bring Mexico into the war, on the side of the Central Powers - hoping Mexico would attack America. These two obviously desperate acts of a failing belligerent were all the impetus America required.

The 'Zimmerman Telegram' (where Germany tried to set Mexico against America) was published, several American merchant ships were sunk by subs, and Woodrow Wilson (the American President) asked Congress to declare war against Germany.

The USA never formally joined the war on the side of the Allies and never sought a pfennig of reparations and was opposed to the War Guilt Clause of The Treaty of Versailles.
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Saying:

Citat:

USA was the leading contributor to the rise of the German Reich, holocaust, and all that horror shit that happened afterwards.

Ignores:
The fact that Germany attacked American shipping and violated International Law.
The fact that Germany was losing anyway.
The fact that Germany invited war by attacking Americans on the high seas. They knew America would go to war if they attacked unarmed American ships.
The fact that the belligerents had months from the end of combat operations (the armistice) to the negotiation of Versailles Treaty.
The fact that Germany was NOT being attacked when it agreed to the terms of the Versailles treaty.
The fact that Germany prosecuted an aggressive war, and admitted to it in the Versailles treaty.
The fact that America refused to support the 'War Guilt' clause.

The War Guilt Clause of Versailles was inserted to enure a legal basis for war reparations - a punishment for Germany (and her allies). The intent was to ensure that Germany would never again rise to be a threat to world peace and order. Germany unilaterally ceased reparations payments and ignored the Treaty limitations on army size when Hitler was appointed Chancellor.

If someone wants to deny direct German culpability for the Holocaust, WW2 and Nazi Germany, it is at least as accurate to blame the Incans, or Spanish Conquistadors than America.

Ancient Peruvians domesticated the potato. It was imported into Europe by the Spanish.
At least 25% of the Old World's population growth from 1700-1900 was due to potato cultivation (other arable land already turned over to other agricultural products) and its particular qualities permitted the 19th century urbanization of continental Europe.
A particular beneficiary of the potato was the emergent German nation - the German Empire in 1871 had 41 million people, in 1913 there were 68 million people.
German urbanization would have been impossible without the potato, and German Industrial might would have been impossible without urbanization.

So, clearly, potatoes, Incans and the Spanish have at least as much blame as America for the rise of Nazi Germany, that is: almost none.
All of these were necessary conditions for the rise of National Socialism, but nowhere near a sufficient condition.

Germany was clearly warlike and expansionist. It didn't need National Socialism for that.
The condition that was both necessary, and finally (with the other necessary conditions) sufficient, was the obedience of the German people. Blaming America, potatoes, Spanish, French, British or Incans for the actions of the German people is not only inaccurate, it discredits the overwhelming effort and will of the postwar Bundesrepublik Deutschland to eliminate aggressive war and National Socialism from the German political spectrum. 'West' Germany genuinely accepted responsibility, and did everything that one could expect to address the grave errors of its past.

Not only is it a joke to suggest America is to blame for National Socialism (at least with the WWI argument), if America was to blame, then Germany was to blame for attacking American merchant shipping *knowing* that America would declare war.

Thus, under any reasonable (and one unreasonable) scenario, the blame is squarely German.
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I watched the video until 7:07.
The 1st straw is where the 'reader letter' claims the USA declared war on Germany and Japan on the same day.
7 Dec 1941 Japan attacks Pearl Harbor and declares war on USA. 8 Dec 1941 USA declares war on Japan. 11 Dec 1941 Germany declares war on the USA, and later that day the USA declares war on Germany.
The 2nd straw is the claim that Ireland was a co-belligerent with the Allies. It was neutral.
The 3rd straw was the claim that 'public education' makes people more likely to fight for the State. Look to Napoleonic France for a direct counter-factual.
Even if it were true, public education is universal -- so the effect is neutral.

The final straw was the claim by the person who claims to have done 'some research' into the matter, that America:

Citat:

"entered the war after trumped up charges of british...uh...german torpedoing ... i think it was of the Lusitania or something ... it was completely nonsensical ... the same kind of propaganda that gets everyone involved in wars"

The Lusitania was sunk in 1915.
Woodrow Wilson warned Germany that it would be held 'strictly accountable' if unarmed American vessels were sunk.

Germany began unrestricted submarine warfare Jan-Feb 1917 and sunk 5 unarmed American merchant ships before Wilson asked for, and received the declaration of war 6 April 1917. Between the ZImmerman Telegram and the sinking of American flag vessels on the open ocean there is no question that Germany was willing to trade American entry into the war for the *hope* that British resupply would be impacted severely. This was (of course) coupled with German underestimation of American capability, overestimation of supply ships that would be sunk and just plain blind hope that Mexico would actually declare war on the USA based on German promises. There was no trumping up, and there is every indication that Wilson avoided war as long as he could.

In America, Wilson, where he is thought of (which is not often), is thought of as an American Chamberlain - just not as deceived.

I apologize: Go back to watching comedians.
Now I make claims and cite my sources (my evidence). I make arguments and invite the validity of the reasoning to be questioned.
You watch some shit on youtube and take it for fact.
Have you considered checking the facts yourself before you inflict your nonsense on everyone else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I#1917.E2.80.931918
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versailles_treaty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_potato#Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire

You don't wake up one day and hate jews all of a sudden. But school manuals tell us exactly this, believing all of us all retarded.

Part 2, and why and how germans came to hate the jews and want to kill them in WW2:

http://youtu.be/e5EsnQUybKU?t=8m56s


PS: In short, religion killing people, as usual And then you have idiots saying ww2 didn't have any religious elment to it LOL

Stupid Unleashed. Hitler hated Jews for a long time, dumbass. He thought that they were making the German people weak and unpatriotic. So, he killed a bunch of Jews.

Scris de Gathering Storm, 26.04.2014 at 14:24

You don't wake up one day and hate jews all of a sudden. But school manuals tell us exactly this, believing all of us all retarded.

Part 2, and why and how germans came to hate the jews and want to kill them in WW2:

http://youtu.be/e5EsnQUybKU?t=8m56s


PS: In short, religion killing people, as usual And then you have idiots saying ww2 didn't have any religious elment to it LOL

Consider undertaking the responsibility of checking the facts of the stuff you post.
The first claim, 10 seconds, in the video makes it almost impossible for a reasonable person with limited time to want to invest watching the rest of the video.

Citat:

The Jews Quote got into power in Russia. Well of course what happened when the Jews got into power in Russia through this Communist revolution is they began slaughtering ALL OF THE QUOTE CHRISTIANS, right?

It is an assault on common sense, isn't true in at least two ways, and is an irresponsible claim by someone who claims to have studied the relevant material.
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Since the before foundation of 'Germany' (there was *always* an undercurrent of anti-semitism. There were also those who called for Jewish emancipation.
Germany (until National Socialism) was not unique in its persecution of Jews. Russia and Europe have gone through waves of antisemitism throughout the centuries.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler talks of the co-optation of popular undercurrents whose views were compatible with National Socialism, especially the Volkisch movement.

Factually, under Lenin, the Soviet Communists were opposed to ANY religion, but, 'ethnic' Jews, from the start of the revolution, were emancipated.
Lenin was opposed to religion, not *former* practitioners of a religion.

After 1927 and Trotsky's loss of power and eventual exile, Stalin resumed anti-semitic actions at a low level until the defeat of Hitler, when again they went into full swing, until Stalin's death.

If there was a pro 'jewish infulence' in the USSR, it ended with Trotsky - and only to the extent that non-religious people who were 'ethinically' Jewish were legally free of official harassment based solely on their heritage - which doesn't exactly sound pro-Jewish to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union

YouTube took his channel down without giving any reason, and only restored it because of the noise the subscribers made.

Clearly, someone doesn't want people to know these things. (and many others)

Here is the truth: No American intervention in WW1 -> No possiblity to impose such harsh sactions to Germany at the end of WW1 -> No Treaty of Versailles -> No desire for blood and revenge (Germany wasn't gonna lose, and assuming it would, the desire wouldn't be so widespread, it wouldn't have a reason to because such drastic punishment COULD NOT BE IMPOSED by someone as wasted as UK & France) -> No Nazi Germany -> No holocaust (WW2 would've probably come anyway, with USSR threatening to invade Europe anyway).

To say that USA has played no part in all of this is to be ignorant or hypocritical beyond all measure, which is to be expected of a racist, stupid, zionist kike.

Scris de Unleashed, 29.04.2014 at 06:53

YouTube took his channel down without giving any reason, and only restored it because of the noise the subscribers made.

Clearly, someone doesn't want people to know these things. (and many others)

Here is the truth: No American intervention in WW1 -> No possiblity to impose such harsh sactions to Germany at the end of WW1 -> No Treaty of Versailles -> No desire for blood and revenge (Germany wasn't gonna lose, and assuming it would, the desire wouldn't be so widespread, it wouldn't have a reason to because such drastic punishment COULD NOT BE IMPOSED by someone as wasted as UK & France) -> No Nazi Germany -> No holocaust (WW2 would've probably come anyway, with USSR threatening to invade Europe anyway).

To say that USA has played no part in all of this is to be ignorant or hypocritical beyond all measure, which is to be expected of a racist, stupid, zionist kike.

For shizzle yo? The USA entered the war very late. And by then the Germans started having a large problem with their economy. They were kicked out of France. And the ToV would have STILL happened if USA didn't enter the war. It would just mean probably no LoN, or just later.

The Germans also were running out of supplies.

Scris de Skanderbeg, 29.04.2014 at 05:30

USSR antisemitic? Why would then USSR(Stalin) support creation of Israel 1947/48 if they were antisemites.

Белые Платья or White Topcoats (you on the west know it as ''Doctor's Plot'' i think) was the only extreme case where jews were accused. But rehabilitated in Khrushchov Era.

Yes, known as the Doctor's Plot.
There were many examples of Official Soviet antisemitism (Stalin Era) - not always against *religious* jews. There is a huge difference between the USSR and Nazi Germany in this respect however. Many governments had legal sanctions on Jewish people, religious or not, but there is a qualitative difference between official sanction and systematic murder.

The guy in the video reminds me of Hank from Breaking Bad.

Scris de Unleashed, 29.04.2014 at 06:53

YouTube took his channel down without giving any reason, and only restored it because of the noise the subscribers made.

Clearly, someone doesn't want people to know these things. (and many others)

Here is the truth: No American intervention in WW1 -> No possiblity to impose such harsh sactions to Germany at the end of WW1 -> No Treaty of Versailles -> No desire for blood and revenge (Germany wasn't gonna lose, and assuming it would, the desire wouldn't be so widespread, it wouldn't have a reason to because such drastic punishment COULD NOT BE IMPOSED by someone as wasted as UK & France) -> No Nazi Germany -> No holocaust (WW2 would've probably come anyway, with USSR threatening to invade Europe anyway).

To say that USA has played no part in all of this is to be ignorant or hypocritical beyond all measure, which is to be expected of a racist, stupid, zionist kike.

1. Just because you keep calling it the truth doesn't make it so, and double in the case of SM.
In the special case of you, almost any causal claim should be evaluated with exceptional skepticism based on your history of invalid reasoning and imperviousness to reason. In the case of SM, a supposed expert in WWI and WW2, he calls the Lusitania sinking made up and the causus belli of America entering the war.
Not true, as I pointed out earlier.
Just because the SM thinks that there would have been universal exhaustion doesn't mean it is true anyway. The Americans never had more than 100,000 troops in combat until the armistice. If Britain was hungry, Germany was STARVING, and this was clear.

Finally, the claim that Europeans never enforced punitive justice before is ludicrous. European nations have been conquering their neighbors and enforcing their will on defeated enemies since antiquity. This is how empires are formed.

2. A proximate event is not necessarily a proximate cause.
USA enters war AND Germany suffers a punitive defeat does not mean USA enters war THEREFORE Germany suffers a punitive defeat.
It is equally accurate to say:
Russia exits war AND Germany suffers a punitive defeat but one cannot then conclude Russia exits war THEREFORE Germany suffers a punitive defeat.

Since the whole idea of causality is cripplingly overmuch brainwork for someone who can't conceive of numbers greater than 10,001, I brought up the potato analogy earlier. Unlike SM's argument I included citations to historical evidence, and all of the facts I provided I believe to be true.

If you will blame the United States for the holocaust, then you might as well blame Peruvians for cultivating potatoes, the Spanish for importing the potato to Europe, and the potato itself for permitting German urbanization, unification and eventually the Holocaust.
Because the Holocaust would not be possible without potatoes, according to your reasoning, we should blame potatoes, and perhaps Gutenberg for creating moveable type. Of course there is enough blame left over for the Jews themselves, ja?
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You also ignore the fact that Germany AGREED to the terms of surrender, was not under attack when it agreed, and accepted responsibility for aggressive war, and that the utter lack of a NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY at the end of WWI would mean that the consequence was, at best, unintended.
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For continuing to blame potatoes for the Holocaust, you close out MayDay 2014 with 4 logical fallacies.
Congratulations!

Scris de Guest, 02.05.2014 at 06:11

The guy in the video reminds me of Hank from Breaking Bad.

Hank is smart, and a good liar. I would not want to play poker with Hank.
THIS GUY however:

He does this immediately after claiming that a 'good number of his family was destroyed on the British and the German side'.

Scris de zombieyeti, 02.05.2014 at 06:27

You also ignore the fact that Germany AGREED to the terms of surrender, was not under attack when it agreed, and accepted responsibility for aggressive wa

No it didn't. There was no other way around it. If I threaten to kill you if you don't give me your wallet, and I have 4 other big guys with me (USA), you will give it to me. You did not *agree* to give me your wallet. You just had no other way of escaping.

Zionists as international body declared war on germany in 1933. when hitler came to power.
Poland encouraged by the UK thretend to crush germany.
Japan same as germany separated their banks from international influence and was pressured into war and expansion.
Hitler attacked russia as prevetive attack because the russians had plans of invading.
USA didnt save europe it just helped speed up the process of germany fall. Soviet would have won eventually and USA probably rushed in aid so that soviets doont take control of whole of europe. - khm cold war.
Churchill had plans of attacking soviet union.
Hitler stoped works on atomic bomb creation ...why? Interesting.
Etc. Etc.
There were jews in the finish front fighting alongside nazis even higher ranked then them fightin the soviets.
Soviets get away with invading poland germans dont - interesting.
Etc. Etc.

Scris de Unleasheds Wrath, 05.07.2014 at 02:53

Scris de zombieyeti, 02.05.2014 at 06:27

You also ignore the fact that Germany AGREED to the terms of surrender, was not under attack when it agreed, and accepted responsibility for aggressive wa

No it didn't. There was no other way around it. If I threaten to kill you if you don't give me your wallet, and I have 4 other big guys with me (USA), you will give it to me. You did not *agree* to give me your wallet. You just had no other way of escaping.

You're right here actually.

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

turkey is the root and responsible for everything that happened if you go back deeper in history by cause and effect

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

There was no Turkey in WW1 so I say GG to your statement. However they made up the largest portion of the Ottoman Empire. Glad I could help lol

Scris de Quantum027, 05.07.2014 at 14:24

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

There was no Turkey in WW1 so I say GG to your statement. However they made up the largest portion of the Ottoman Empire. Glad I could help lol

Wtf mate turkey was on the side of central powers with germany, austria and bulgaria -__- ...ever heard of Gallipoli?

or did you mean there was no turkey but it was osman empire xD

To add on to this old thread:

In the case of the formation of Nazi Germany, the American Government is not to blame, while America may have been the tipping point in a stalemated war (World War 1) that did not mean they put Hitler and his supporters into power. In history we look at past wars, although not of the same magnitude in size and industrialization, we see that the losing country doesn't fall into a state of Fascism. The fact that Germany, after World War 1, fell into a Fascism Regime operated by an immoral leader doesn't constitute blame to anyone but the leaders of this Regime and the former leaders who allowed it to happen. Going into the war, the USA had no idea what the outcome would do to Europe some 25 years later. All America knew was to enter the war and save Britain and France. As I have said before the leaders of the Nazi-Fascist Regime in Germany and the leaders of Germany before that (who fell and allowed the opportunity for Hitler to rise) are responsible for the acts that occurred during the Second World War. The Potatoes analogy is correct in showing the flaws that Unleased uses in blaming America. I am just surprised Unleased isn't blaming religion this time, just another example of how Unleashed is an insecure 12-year-old kid who hates everything but himself.

Scris de Goblin, 05.07.2014 at 14:26

Scris de Quantum027, 05.07.2014 at 14:24

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

There was no Turkey in WW1 so I say GG to your statement. However they made up the largest portion of the Ottoman Empire. Glad I could help lol

Wtf mate turkey was on the side of central powers with germany, austria and bulgaria -__- ...ever heard of Gallipoli?

or did you mean there was no turkey but it was osman empire xD

I was trying to be a smart ass lol as technically it was Ottoman Empire. I didn't mean shit lol just having fun.

Scris de Quantum027, 05.07.2014 at 14:24

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

There was no Turkey in WW1 so I say GG to your statement. However they made up the largest portion of the Ottoman Empire. Glad I could help lol

Ottoman Turkish--> Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmâniyye
Other languages--> Turkey, Turchia

Noone called them Ottoman Empire

Scris de Goblin, 05.07.2014 at 14:26

or did you mean there was no turkey but it was osman empire xD

We use Osman Empire in Turkish. Osman is the founder of the state. I'm surprised you know it

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 14:46

Scris de Quantum027, 05.07.2014 at 14:24

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

There was no Turkey in WW1 so I say GG to your statement. However they made up the largest portion of the Ottoman Empire. Glad I could help lol

Ottoman Turkish--> Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmâniyye
Other languages--> Turkey, Turchia

Noone called them Ottoman Empire

Except every historian and nation of the time. While Turkey may have considered themselves separate they weren't. That is like Texas, my state woot, trying to say it is its own. It made up a country but was not its own separate and saying it is makes your argument look like it was Unleashed's

Scris de Quantum027, 05.07.2014 at 14:50

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 14:46

Scris de Quantum027, 05.07.2014 at 14:24

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 08:00

Can you guys say something about Turkey too? I'd like to learn the truth

There was no Turkey in WW1 so I say GG to your statement. However they made up the largest portion of the Ottoman Empire. Glad I could help lol

Ottoman Turkish--> Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmâniyye
Other languages--> Turkey, Turchia

Noone called them Ottoman Empire

Except every historian and nation of the time. While Turkey may have considered themselves separate they weren't. That is like Texas, my state woot, trying to say it is its own. It made up a country but was not its own separate and saying it is makes your argument look like it was Unleashed's

I am not saying Turkey was seperate. Turkey is successor of Ottoman Empire. What I'm saying is Ottoman Empire was called Turkey back then too. I think historians decided to call it Ottoman Empire to seperate it from modern Turkey. Because head of the state used "Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmaniye" whixh means "State of Osman".

Scris de Guest, 26.04.2014 at 15:20

Stupid Unleashed. Hitler hated Jews for a long time, dumbass. He thought that they were making the German people weak and unpatriotic. So, he killed a bunch of Jews.

In Hitler's Early days he fell in love with a Jew and dreampt of kidnapping her and commiting suicde with her. obviously he never did. And he also thought the German empire fell because of the jews some how helping the Triple Entente.

Scris de UnIeashed, 05.07.2014 at 20:00

Scris de Guest, 26.04.2014 at 15:20

Stupid Unleashed. Hitler hated Jews for a long time, dumbass. He thought that they were making the German people weak and unpatriotic. So, he killed a bunch of Jews.

And he also thought the German empire fell because of the jews some how helping the Triple Entente.

thought?

Scris de UnIeashed, 05.07.2014 at 20:00

Scris de Guest, 26.04.2014 at 15:20

Stupid Unleashed. Hitler hated Jews for a long time, dumbass. He thought that they were making the German people weak and unpatriotic. So, he killed a bunch of Jews.

In Hitler's Early days he fell in love with a Jew and dreampt of kidnapping her and commiting suicde with her. obviously he never did. And he also thought the German empire fell because of the jews some how helping the Triple Entente.

No, he never fell in love with a Jew. You probably confused with 'Geli Raubal'; his half-niece which he fell in love with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geli_Raubal.

His hate to Jews was mainly because he held them responsible for the bad economics of Germany, the loss of WW1 and the maintain of the Treaty of Versailles. You have to understand that the Jews where the rich in Germany at that time (runned many banks; holding government positions etc); while Germany itself was very poor because of the treaty.

Scris de Roncho, 05.07.2014 at 14:49

Scris de Goblin, 05.07.2014 at 14:26

or did you mean there was no turkey but it was osman empire xD

We use Osman Empire in Turkish. Osman is the founder of the state. I'm surprised you know it

well we do study alot about ottoman empire in school considering we fought it for hundreds of years and in collage i learned alot about ottoman empire, system of goverment etc. ...about every sultan and so on