How people see Custom Maps

Please post your thoughts here. Thanks.

I'm not disappointed. Why would people want to make maps if nobody is playing them? Once the games are merged I'm sure we'll see a lot more activity happening.

Don't forget that the primary objective of alpha is to test the game and discover bugs/exploits, after the merge things will be much different.

Then clearly the space of alpha is wasted for a further 14 days...

Lack of people making maps= Lack of people playing those maps=Lack of bugs reported/suggestions=Lack of additions=Bad Alpha Use.

I believe that there was some miscalculations into people's interests and how long the alpha should be...

Alpha has been at status quo for 2 weeks now and whilst it is true that we have waited months onto months for Custom Maps it annoys me that alpha interest has peaked so quickly....

This is a CLEAR indication for the future that many WILL NOT BOTHER to make any maps; a certain set of maps will DOMINATE; Ideas of maps would SATURATE;default map would be EVEN MORE POPULAR because of familiarity

I hold the theory that AW community would eventually become dependent on certain Cartographer Clans (cough Epicness in a Can cough) which would overrun the whole custom map ideal. More people will be disinclined to this nature of monopolization of AW and hence the entertainment overall is lost and AW declines overall. This is what I fear. Fingers cross that I will not be proved right...

Citat:

Once the games are merged I'm sure we'll see a lot more activity happening-Ivan

That is wishful thinking, not foresight. It seems that it does not bother this game's creator the slightest over this transitional period. Gambling all on 1/12/12 for people to rush in and become enthusiastic all of a sudden....

PS: There are 765+ people who are rank 6 or above which I guess 50% have premium of some sort. These are the core veterans of the game and the majority don't care now. They can happily stay in the main and play their SP intensive games.... besides, doesn't custom maps sabotage their chances of ranking up? Since different Citiy reinforcement; City income; Country arrangement of custom maps makes it harder to know how to get sp?

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 14:37

Then clearly the space of alpha is wasted for a further 14 days...

Lack of people making maps= Lack of people playing those maps=Lack of bugs reported/suggestions=Lack of additions=Bad Alpha Use.

I believe that there was some miscalculations into people's interests and how long the alpha should be...

Alpha has been at status quo for 2 weeks now and whilst it is true that we have waited months onto months for Custom Maps it annoys me that alpha interest has peaked so quickly....

This is a CLEAR indication for the future that many WILL NOT BOTHER to make any maps; a certain set of maps will DOMINATE; Ideas of maps would SATURATE;default map would be EVEN MORE POPULAR because of familiarity

I hold the theory that AW community would eventually become dependent on certain Cartographer Clans (cough Epicness in a Can cough) which would overrun the whole custom map ideal. More people will be disinclined to this nature of monopolization of AW and hence the entertainment overall is lost and AW declines overall. This is what I fear. Fingers cross that I will not be proved right...

Seriously everything I do you must hate. EC was made so we could help each other make maps and discuss issues we have with ours. We do not plan on world domination or holding a monopoly on all maps and scenarios. Now I will clone the default map, add 1 city with 1 reinf. and 1 income to Antarctica and see if you can SOMEHOW hate on that too.

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 14:37

Then clearly the space of alpha is wasted for a further 14 days...

Lack of people making maps= Lack of people playing those maps=Lack of bugs reported/suggestions=Lack of additions=Bad Alpha Use.

Nothing is wasted. We have more than enough things on our hands even without any additional suggestions. Bugs will be weeded out too - sooner or later.

I really don't understand your panic. We don't just "Gamble all on 1/12/12 for people to rush in", we know they would be there for sure - since it would be the only AW game available And we're not going to tear out hair off if more than half of the games are still on the Default map - it's a good map, let people play there if they want. We don't actually care so much for having hundreds of new maps every week - in fact, if we only have 5 new high-quality maps a month, we would be very happy indeed. Doesn't matter who makes them - 'cartographer clans' or individuals - as long as they are damn good.

Ezzatam, I hope you're not taking over Gardevoir's duties in the doom & gloom department - you seemed like a reasonable enough guy...

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 14:37

I hold the theory that AW community would eventually become dependent on certain Cartographer Clans (cough Epicness in a Can cough) which would overrun the whole custom map ideal. More people will be disinclined to this nature of monopolization of AW and hence the entertainment overall is lost and AW declines overall. This is what I fear. Fingers cross that I will not be proved right...

That is wishful thinking, not foresight. It seems that it does not bother this game's creator the slightest over this transitional period. Gambling all on 1/12/12 for people to rush in and become enthusiastic all of a sudden....

Do you have some arguments to back up that theory? What is exactly wrong with coalitions oriented on map making? It seems to me, that individuals who are good enough in making maps will be even better if they co-operate. But that doesn't necessarily mean that other people won't have a chance at making their own epic custom map. I don't really get your point here.
Maps are fun to make, there are (or will be) some interesting challenges regarding the maps and it's just another plus to the game which was already good even without it.

And for the other part, why don't we let admins do the marketing instead of throwing predictions based on nothing? I said things will be different when alpha comes out, and it sure will, but it doesn't mean the millions of people will rush over here just to play it. Afterwind is not, and probably will never be, the game that attracts masses, but that's completely OK. Let's sit and wait how things will work out.

I blame premium people that played all those day (and the next 14 days) in the normal game, i joined the alpha 3 or 4 days each week and it was always without any player, including in casual, only one good casual game is open in the alpha, im playing it at the moment.

Provisional List of Maps

this is a small list of maps that are decent to play.

WWII and WWII
Im sorry but i cant see any map that deserves to be commented in this section.

Medieval

Dragon´s Japan, Dragonperson76
This is the seven map, all countries have 7 reinforcement...
If you forgot that, this map looks amazing with all those different types of units.

Renaissance, utahrapter3
Utah finally stoped of using the white mapbackground, he worked many days in this map.

Ancient World

Greek World, Talos
You are the winner in Ancient World, i recognize this map as one of the best at the moment.

Sorry for Avatar and Utah, all those massive quantities of plays dont make your maps good.
Utah you use a really ugly white background and those borders like cheap.
Avatar, your map is a mixture of default borders and imaginative borders, inclunding the atlantis in the middle of the ocean...

Fantasy

A Song of Ice and Fire, Pulse.
A really good map, many diferent territories with a good distribution of reinforcements and income.
There are another two maps of this book saga, but this is the best.

Nirn Serie, Gardevoir
This serie of maps had many possibilities in scenarios, sadly Gardevoir is not with us anymore.

Cln Wars, Avatar
This map still needing a bit more of balancing in reinforcements and income, but is funny.

Space

Imperium of man 0.7, Talos
*Claps* amazing, just amazing, best space map at the moment.

Space v1.2, Cthulhu
Prizes of units are bit excessive in my opinion, but still being a good map.

Space Platform War, Sklash
Overpopulated of cities, but still being an interesting game.

Other

American Civil War, zombiekiller706
Other section is full of shity maps, this is one of the exceptions.

CONQUERER Darma isles, quiver2
Reinforcements a of this map are an exageration, if the creator fix that, this map can be good.

Family war, safari
This map have some important failures in the borders.

Im going to end this list with Modern World, more than the 50% of the custom maps are in this sections, but most of them are just terrible, i cant make a a properly list at the moment, because check all those dozens of maps is a nightmare, but here you have a fast list.

Modern World

Default Map (:P)
Grands-Lac-Québec-Atlantique
Jamaica Best Country
PaoloPalacios´s Map (Madagascar)
Utah´s Ultimate Europe
Great Lakes
Great Lakes (small)
Great Britain and Ireland
Hawaii
New Brunswick!
Strangereal World
New Zealand
War in Istanbul
California Republic
United States by paolo(Unfinish)
England & Walles
Naval Map (by Avatar)
Germany
Revolution 1.2
Europe (Beta)
And all scaled-MEGAMAPS (USA, UK, CHINA, JAPAN... and more...)

This list of maps is provisional, one of those days i will make a better list of maps, commenting units, countries, reinforcements-income balance...
I will try to make a little group of testers to make constructive critiques, and with this, help map creators to improve maps.

Scris de Ivan, 16.11.2012 at 15:12

Ezzatam, I hope you're not taking over Gardevoir's duties in the doom & gloom department - you seemed like a reasonable enough guy...

Thanks Ivan, unlike Gardevoir (who was an impatient troll) I have better EQ and probably IQ.
I care a lot about this game as you can see by the amount the maps I make (13 Maps, 2185 Cities, 492 Divisions)
I dare say that I have contributed THE MOST in Alpha and have made cities with CORRECT population and income without being lazy and using the default multipliers.
Making maps is by no means FUN... it gets real tedious and becomes a Copy and Paste Job once you get past your 5th map. I know how it feels and hence I can project for a beginner in custom maps of his mental processes.
The reason why I am so dedicated to making them is because this hopefully kick starts the "rushing in" as you say.
There is NEXT TO NO incentive for me. (If only the area where I live has better entertainment)
I would prefer not to have wasted my efforts and hence started this topic as a PRECAUTION to see how people perceive Custom Maps.
My comments are pessimistic because 1) They appeal better for counter arguments, 2) The truth is often worse that what you think.
My ideals revolve around Murphy's Law.
PS: Each map of mine takes 6 hours+ (including collection of data to adding flags) So do I not even get a basic right as a map-maker? Imagine you own a pet shop, would you not care about how the animals you cared for are doing? Whether or not they are fed or groomed?

Scris de Ivan, 16.11.2012 at 15:12

Ezzatam, I hope you're not taking over Gardevoir's duties in the doom & gloom department - you seemed like a reasonable enough guy...

I think that you dont should talk about Gardevoir like that, he acted sometimes of a way really childish and i discussed many times with he.
But he still being (or was) a good player, a promising cartographer, and an user really interested in Afterwind and the forum (or AtWar if you prefer).
This is a completly tragedy.

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 15:50

Scris de Ivan, 16.11.2012 at 15:12

Ezzatam, I hope you're not taking over Gardevoir's duties in the doom & gloom department - you seemed like a reasonable enough guy...

Thanks Ivan, unlike Gardevoir (who was an impatient troll) I have better EQ and probably IQ.
I care a lot about this game as you can see by the amount the maps I make (13 Maps, 2185 Cities, 492 Divisions)
I dare say that I have contributed THE MOST in Alpha and have made cities with CORRECT population and income without being lazy and using the default multipliers.
Making maps is by no means FUN... it gets real tedious and becomes a Copy and Paste Job once you get past your 5th map. I know how it feels and hence I can project for a beginner in custom maps of his mental processes.
The reason why I am so dedicated to making them is because this hopefully kick starts the "rushing in" as you say.
There is NEXT TO NO incentive for me. (If only the area where I live has better entertainment)
I would prefer not to have wasted my efforts and hence started this topic as a PRECAUTION to see how people perceive Custom Maps.
My comments are pessimistic because 1) They appeal better for counter arguments, 2) The truth is often worse that what you think.
My ideals revolve around Murphy's Law.
PS: Each map of mine takes 6 hours+ (including collection of data to adding flags) So do I not even get a basic right as a map-maker? Imagine you own a pet shop, would you not care about how the animals you cared for are doing? Whether or not they are fed or groomed?

1: Making maps IS fun, all you need is your imagination and you must enjoy the subject of your map. I for one enjoy seeing my map grow and I can't help but have a smile when I work on my map.
2: Just because you wrote down the correct population for 500 cities doesn't mean that the map is now #1. Most people I know including me admitted to never even looking at the population of a city/country. And since I know you are just thinking of me when you wrote "without being lazy and using the default multipliers." I must say that some people don't want to spend 2 hours working on population (something most Afterwinders don't care about) when they could be adding new country's or units.
3: Please stop showing off how many divisions and crap you have whenever you post a message. It's really irritating.

And let's not turn this into personal discussion, you have PM if you want to settle something. Thank you.

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 15:50

I dare say that I have contributed THE MOST in Alpha and have made cities with CORRECT population and income without being lazy and using the default multipliers.
Making maps is by no means FUN... it gets real tedious and becomes a Copy and Paste Job once you get past your 5th map. I know how it feels and hence I can project for a beginner in custom maps of his mental processes.
The reason why I am so dedicated to making them is because this hopefully kick starts the "rushing in" as you say.
There is NEXT TO NO incentive for me. (If only the area where I live has better entertainment)

You might want to rethink your reasons for making maps. If it's not fun, perhaps you should stop making them and just play the game. We do recognize your input, but let's just agree that if you're making maps, you're only going to do that for your own pleasure and expect no compensation, OK?

Citat:

I would prefer not to have wasted my efforts and hence started this topic as a PRECAUTION to see how people perceive Custom Maps.

Sorry if we were misleading in any way. If you're (understandably) disappointed that nobody's playing your maps, wait until the games are merged. When suddenly all the current AW players are in the new lobby, I'm sure they would want to check out the wonderful new custom maps

Citat:

2) The truth is often worse that what you think.
My ideals revolve around Murphy's Law.

While this is correct, don't underestimate the power of positive thinking. Without it, there would've been no Afterwind.

Citat:

PS: Each map of mine takes 6 hours+ (including collection of data to adding flags) So do I not even get a basic right as a map-maker? Imagine you own a pet shop, would you not care about how the animals you cared for are doing? Whether or not they are fed or groomed?

OK, first of all, this is a terrible analogy. I wouldn't refer to our players as 'pets in a pet shop', but you can't deny that we do care (otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this, actually). So, what kind of basic rights do you want as a map-maker then?

Scris de Ivan, 16.11.2012 at 16:18

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 15:50

Imagine you own a pet shop, would you not care about how the animals you cared for are doing? Whether or not they are fed or groomed?

OK, first of all, this is a terrible analogy. I wouldn't refer to our players as 'pets in a pet shop', but you can't deny that we do care (otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this, actually). So, what kind of basic rights do you want as a map-maker then?

You are substituting in too much, in this context the "pet shop" is supposed to mean the map maker and the "animals" the maps. What were you thinking?!
I wouldn't have hinted that I am an animal in a pet shop either! Anyway, Map-making runs on expectations, X effort makes you expect an equivalent X recognition. Should that equivalent X recognition be achieved by another, would you still make >X effort for an >X equivalent recognition? Eventually, people are discouraged to make maps (because of saturation). Likewise, if X effort bears <X of fruit (recognition) would you naturally still feel happy? The outcome in this case far outweigh the "FUN" of the process. Given the trolls who down rate maps simply because their ideas ware materialised first and various other influences, Recognition is most likely <X effort. This leads people not to make maps in fear of getting bashed for their efforts.
You get my point now? the system is self-contradictory and a Catch-22 in itself. You suffer whether or not you make map, which new AW could create an atmosphere of envy of achievement/despise of failure as perceived by others. IN THEORY

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 16:40

Scris de Ivan, 16.11.2012 at 16:18

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 15:50

Imagine you own a pet shop, would you not care about how the animals you cared for are doing? Whether or not they are fed or groomed?

OK, first of all, this is a terrible analogy. I wouldn't refer to our players as 'pets in a pet shop', but you can't deny that we do care (otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this, actually). So, what kind of basic rights do you want as a map-maker then?

You are substituting in too much, in this context the "pet shop" is supposed to mean the map maker and the "animals" the maps. What were you thinking?!
I wouldn't have hinted that I am an animal in a pet shop either! Anyway, Map-making runs on expectations, X effort makes you expect an equivalent X recognition. Should that equivalent X recognition be achieved by another, would you still make >X effort for an >X equivalent recognition? Eventually, people are discouraged to make maps (because of saturation). Likewise, if X effort bears <X of fruit (recognition) would you naturally still feel happy? The outcome in this case far outweigh the "FUN" of the process. Given the trolls who down rate maps simply because their ideas ware materialised first and various other influences, Recognition is most likely <X effort. This leads people not to make maps in fear of getting bashed for their efforts.
You get my point now? the system is self-contradictory and a Catch-22 in itself. You suffer whether or not you make map, which new AW could create an atmosphere of envy of achievement/despise of failure as perceived by others. IN THEORY

I swear one person said this in his mind when scenarios first came out for normal AW

Scris de ezzatam, 16.11.2012 at 15:50

new AW could create an atmosphere of envy of achievement/despise of failure as perceived by others. IN THEORY

Your Theory is a Fact.
Eventually The Custom maps are gonna get Monopolized

Microsoft = Mega/Giga Series
Apple = Epic CAN.

and then we have

Liniux = Default Map