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Scris de Dave, 09.04.2025 at 14:58

Scris de Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

There are people here who are mad at me because I'm not giving them what they want. According to them I'm an evil narcissist. So that's one possibility to explain my code of behavior.

Let me propose another possibility. I'm not going to tell you what to think -- all I ask is you consider the following, and then decide for yourself which explanation of my behavior best fits reality.

Maybe I'm not an egoist, or a narcissist, or even a bad guy at all.
Maybe I do care about atWar, and feel obligated to protect it / preserve it.
Maybe I really do believe that removing those people from the community was a net positive for atWar.
Maybe I reject the argument to "unban", not because I'm not hearing what people are saying, but because I believe it would be a mistake.
Maybe I think that less activity is preferable to bad activity.
Maybe I think we are actually better off this way.

I choose to answer you this because you seem like somebody who is rational and open to listening. Take from that what you will.

what happened?

Scris de Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

There are people here who are mad at me because I'm not giving them what they want. According to them I'm an evil narcissist. So that's one possibility to explain my code of behavior.

Let me propose another possibility. I'm not going to tell you what to think -- all I ask is you consider the following, and then decide for yourself which explanation of my behavior best fits reality.

Maybe I'm not an egoist, or a narcissist, or even a bad guy at all.
Maybe I do care about atWar, and feel obligated to protect it / preserve it.
Maybe I really do believe that removing those people from the community was a net positive for atWar.
Maybe I reject the argument to "unban", not because I'm not hearing what people are saying, but because I believe it would be a mistake.
Maybe I think that less activity is preferable to bad activity.
Maybe I think we are actually better off this way.

I choose to answer you this because you seem like somebody who is rational and open to listening. Take from that what you will.

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

Scris de Dave, 08.04.2025 at 22:28

They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

This needs to be highlighted.

If you or you know of someone that was banned that wants to be here, I would encourage you to try and reach out to Dave privately and ask for a fresh start. AW is full of passionate people and passions flare up. The trick is understanding that most of us have the same interests here. We all want AW to continue and do well.

Scris de Skittzophrenic, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

I've been on this game for over 13 years. I've made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies... and I miss both.

Preach!
Long time no see Skkitz

Scris de Dave, 09.04.2025 at 01:15

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Did it look like this?



If so, that's just an automated message that happens when some wiseguy puts your username here:



It definitely wasn't from me.

ok g my bad i didnt think that my id password would randomly appear in my mail like that. we thought it was u doing it

It's a good game. I hope you are wrong.

@Tengri
Once upon a time I was called to cw but did not remember my password. A clanmate of mine knew for some reason to tell me in instance "it's ***** how can you not remember such an easy password?'. And that's AtWar in itswhole glory for you.

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Did it look like this?



If so, that's just an automated message that happens when some wiseguy puts your username here:



It definitely wasn't from me.

Scris de Dave, 08.04.2025 at 22:28

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information Tengri. I have not restored any accounts or sent any emails. They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Good! That's the whole point.

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information Tengri. I have not restored any accounts or sent any emails. They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Scris de 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Good! That's the whole point.

I guess it's time for my 2 cents

I've been on this game for over 13 years. I've made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies... and I miss both.
Just bring these people back, I wasn't really here during the purge but I did want to say something but never did because I didn't want my account to be banned.
I don't think it should matter if people shouldn't be back here, the game is literally unplayable most of the day. I barely come back because there is no one here really. I miss playing scenarios.
Banning people has consequences and they are showing right now. People deserve chances. Just mute them for an hour if they rile up. But don't reban them.

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back. They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

Scris de Metyu, 08.04.2025 at 18:15

Hey, congrats on winning the game, mate!

Yeah I didn't like the feeling. Betting the faith of a 8 hours game over an unlikely turnblock is far more exciting.

Right now I hope there is now WWII player reading this and screaming "FUCKING ROi!!!!"

Scris de the equalizer, 08.04.2025 at 14:29

Would it be against the rules for me to tell OP to kill himself? because he should

He actually has tried but has failed numerous times due to the fact his weight destroys the noose

Scris de clovis1122, 08.04.2025 at 14:14

Scris de Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

I made the same mistake

I guess deep down, we'd like to believe we can solve differences through communication. And yet, that will just never work with some people. Identifying such people is a hard task... even after we decide to burn the bridge and cut ties, we're left wondering: had we communicated better... could we have settled our differences?

100% this.

Scris de 4nic Smith, 08.04.2025 at 09:53

Cmon Dave, do the right thing, its now or never, general pardon my friends, they dindu nothing, general pardon even xbugs just tie his hands so he wont hack anymore.

Sorry cousin, but you know I'm doing the right thing by keeping the bad people outta here.

Scris de Red.Army, 08.04.2025 at 06:54

They painting you out to be this evil guy who won't change his mind about banned players when it is simply not true. You and the mods didn't have to remove my permaban back during the pandemic, but you did

You're one of the few we gave a 2nd chance to who DIDN'T make us regret it. Thank you.

I really admire your passion for creating maps for a game that's on its last legs.

Scris de LuciferStar, 07.04.2025 at 23:21

Well, this thread has certainly gained traction.

This is my (unwarranted?) two cents on the issue. Working in law has given me insight into the impulse to punish as a means of deterrence, which is entirely valid. Historically, punishment has been regarded as the most effective way to discourage unwanted behavior.

However, the legal system also incorporates statutes of limitations for good reason. If we imprisoned people indefinitely, our correctional facilities would quickly reach capacity.
After 4-5 years, it's reasonable to conclude that the point has been made. While punishments help maintain social order, second chances make our communities more humane and livable.

The competitive community is barely surviving, and realistically, extending second chances to players might breathe new life into what once united enthusiasts across the board. You can always reinstate bans if necessary, but taking a measured risk to improve the game's ecosystem seems like a reasonable gamble.

Consider that growth often comes from our willingness to reevaluate rigid positions. The strongest communities aren't those that punish forever, but those that create pathways for genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. At some point, we must ask ourselves what matters more: maintaining the permanence of old decisions or fostering an environment where people can demonstrate they've changed. The game's future might depend on our answer.

As someone who has also worked in the law, I know there are 2 different kinds of offenders. There are those who got into trouble, were punished, and straightened out their lives because of it, never getting in trouble again. And then there are those who are habitual offenders with rap sheets a mile long, who have never and will never learn.

I think almost no one who we banned or deleted back in 2021 was innocent. Most were habitual offenders to begin with. I have no interest in giving them 3rd, 4th, or however many chances. Let's just be honest: they are not going to be rehabilitated, and I'm not wasting time to try again.

Been there, done that.

For the Lion situation : What he did was abuse ur trust and delete a discord server true thats not good , but i wouldnt say it was something major , for me personally i didnt even know there existed such a server
and most players probably dont even use discord or know of aw related servers , heck i havent had anyone come up to me and say damn man lion deleted some random discord server that 99% of aw players didnt even know about lol
Imo the lion ban is yours personally vendetta , i dont think u will find many ppl that would say good thing that lion is banned xd

You have no idea how to use the [img] command. It's not Dave's fault.

Hey, congrats on winning the game, mate!

Scris de Weisser Wolf, 07.04.2025 at 22:39

Dave,

I think it goes without saying at this point—everyone has already shared their thoughts on the current state of the game: the players you've refused to unban, the slow pace of improvements, and the steady decline in activity. However, I'd like to comment on one particular aspect.

A true leader knows when to acknowledge a mistake. And if you're looking for examples, some of the most respected CEOs—like those of Microsoft or Apple—have publicly admitted when they've made the wrong call. That's not weakness, that's humility. I say this with the utmost respect: I hope you take a moment to genuinely reflect.

Even users often labeled as toxic or disruptive—like Kaska—have recognized that the mass banning of players has gone too far. And honestly, if someone like me, who used to be known for toxic behavior in duels and clan wars, can admit it was time to grow up and stop playing the victim, I believe change is possible. I had to take a "forced vacation" myself, and I now recognize how counterproductive that attitude was.

As Kaska suggested, why not simply unban those users but mute them from everything except private messages? What real harm could they do? If you give them a second chance, many of them might return—and with them, activity could increase again. We could even experiment with fresh concepts: maybe an "ancient season," or a rotation of never-before-seen maps. As we all know, atWar has near-infinite creative potential.

And if time or resources are the problem, subcontracting is always an option. Outsourcing some work to experienced developers—say, from Mexico or India—could go a long way. Believe me, as a business and process consultant, I say this from experience.

As many have said, an event where you make Waffel super admin or I don't know, something innovative while simply AIing the game or fixing bugs in the maps. And on the topic of Lion nuking the discord, please Dave, it's not like it was the end of the world. I bet Croat or someone else who had the power to do that over a little tantrum could have done it.

It's time to move into the future, even games that were abandonware are reviving thanks to the community, you need a real community manager for the game and maybe, dedicate yourself to the technical, marketing and business issues of the game and believe me many people in the community would be happy to help as it was in that era when Alois and not a certain bug abuser was the head supporter.

I know I'm repeating things others have already pointed out, but I still felt it was worth adding my two cents to the conversation.

I agree that a good leader admits when he is wrong and I like to believe I have that ability too. I've already stated in this thread that I made a mistake wasting too much time talking with the community instead of just focusing on what I knew needed to be done. But as regards removing the people who needed to be removed, I remain convinced it was the right decision.

I hear so many people say "give them a second chance", "maybe they've changed", or sentiments to this effect. Do you not realize, we already did that? Many of the troublemakers who ultimately got banned or deleted in 2021 were people who had ALREADY been through rounds of bans, appeals, and second chances. People must have short memory spans, but I still remember. So if you wonder why I'm unwilling to unban again, it's because we already tried that and it didn't work. I have no interest in going down that road again.

I am also surprised that for as much as people talk about the "good ol' days of atWar", the community, the friendships.... all these things people look back fondly at.... and yet they seem to have no problem with Lion having destroyed a big part of that history forever. It's paradoxical to me that anyone would miss the past and yet defend Lion destroying that same past.

I cannot believe I have read this whole thing and I was shocked of how Atwars community has come to this.

As someone who just comes on,trolls someone here and there,and just closes the game,I feel like Dave should really let go of everything and just let people have the last bit of fun,while it lasts.
Just let it go,modify their access to communication or have some restriction,I don't know,but let people have what they want and see how it goes,you can't lose something that's not lost yet.

This is not a troll post,nor anyone convinced me to write this stuff. I do not even talk to anyone on or off atwar,so this is my pure opinion.

Whatever you might think about Dave or the state of the game. We should give credit where it's due, he hasn't taken down this thread and he is still paying for the upkeep of the game. AW is still here when a lot of business minds would have simply shut it down.

Sometimes I wonder what people I used to play with get up to and I come here to look at the old clan pages and think about the great times we had. The forums hold a lot of sentimental value. Sometimes I get a chance to talk to one of them and it's nice to know where they are and what they're doing. I still have that chance because Dave keeps the lights on.

For accounts that were banned, it would be nice to see them reinstated to some capacity, but not at the expense of alienating the guy that maintains what's left. Ultimately it's up to him whether we like it or not. He's one man, he's capable of the same greatness and fuckery as the rest of us.

Cheers

Scris de DON RUTTER, 03.04.2025 at 20:15

Wait a second. Before taking any step, we should clarify who is considered pro and who is not. I say everybody level 9 and up.

Clearly everyone is noob except me

Would it be against the rules for me to tell OP to kill himself? because he should

Scris de Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

I made the same mistake

I guess deep down, we'd like to believe we can solve differences through communication. And yet, that will just never work with some people. Identifying such people is a hard task... even after we decide to burn the bridge and cut ties, we're left wondering: had we communicated better... could we have settled our differences?

It is simple: accept that you are wrong when everyone, even those at odds with each other, says the same thing.

Cmon Dave, do the right thing, its now or never, general pardon my friends, they dindu nothing, general pardon even xbugs just tie his hands so he wont hack anymore.